The TLG-500 Wind Generator
Can outperform any Instantaneous rated unit up to 2Kw and some all the way to 5Kw.
Nothing outperforms a TLG-500

TLG-500 12 or 24 Volt Wind Generator F.A.Q.

I have received a lot of questions about the TLG-500 since its conception.  I hope sharing some of the answers here on this page will help you better understand the system we developed for you.

Q. What kind of payback can I expect with this unit or is it like all the rest and it will never pay for itself?
A. Payback will depend how much wind you have, and how well you utilize the power you will be creating.
Based on feedback from some owners saying they are saving $50.00 to $80.00 per month on their electric bill with a single unit.  If you average that at $65.00, a TLG-500 could pay for itself in as little as 19 months, which is about 18 years sooner than most on the market today.
Here is a couple of links to the owners stating monthly savings from having a single TLG-500.
Norman's TLG-500 Wind Generator in Dartmouth Nova Scotia Canada
John M. in NY with a tilt up tower for his TLG-500

Q. Thank you for talking with me on the phone. I hope you do not take my follow up email as me not trusting in what you say. I have gotten burned over and over when it comes to wind generators and I don't want to waste anymore money than I already have on this 4 hornet wind farm if it is not going to do me any good. You said I can improve what I have with your blades but you also said that 1 of your wind generators will out perform all 4 of these hornets. Would you mind putting that in writing for me?
Again Terry I hope this does not offend you!  Thank you Anthony.
A.  I am not offended at all Anthony.  I have heard your story numerous times from others and I have told them the same thing.  I will not only put it in writing here, but I will also post this email on the TLG-500 FAQ page on the website as well for everyone to read.
Yes, either the Cy-Clone or Boast Buster at 4.5 foot configuration will at least make your Hornets do something for you in common low wind.  And as I said on the phone if you take your 4 Hornet wind farm with the stock blades just as they are a single TLG-500 will produce much more power in common wind than you will ever see with your stock 4 hornets.  You said yourself that you get 1 amp out of each one of the Hornets at 15 mph.  At your 1800 foot altitude you will get right at 7.5 amps into your battery bank with a single TLG-500, and that's almost twice as much power.  These numbers are not coming from TLG, they come from the owners of our unit.  TLG posts the output data that comes in from owners of the units,  that way TLG does not end up with people feeling about our products the way you feel about your Hornets.
For the cost of 4 sets of replacement blades I would just buy a TLG-500 and make some quiet power for a change.  Look on the bright side of this, you have already spent the money on 4 towers to install that mini wind farm.  Now you can put four TLG-500 units on them and start making a lot of power.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Terry 

Q. In an ad I saw on ebay they were talking about their unit not furling so it could put out maximum power.  I guess my question is how much power does the tlg500 unit loose by furling?
A. I am not sure I would call the furling of the TLG-500 a loss.  Most of the units that I have seen that do not furl are limited by design and materials to what they can put out.  Most of the brand X type units I have tested here have a max amperage into a 12 volt battery of 12 to 15 amps and they reach that between 30 and 45 mph.  And start their first amp into a battery between 12 to 18 mph.  Since they don't put out all that much it would not hurt to leave them dead into the wind except for maybe structural damage.
The TLG-500 does not have a limit like that.  The harder the wind blows the more it puts out.  And I am not talking about a max of 12 to 15 amps either.  It would go all the way to 100 + amps into a 12 volt battery if it were direct inline with a strong wind.  Here's the problem with that.  It is not designed to run at 50 plus amps of output for any length of time, so I had to design a furling system that would limit its output to protect it from burning up.  As I mentioned above the others I have tested hit their max output in the 30 to 45 mph range where the TLG-500 is stomping out 20 to 45 amps in the 30 to 45 mph range.  If I didn't furl it, it would destroy itself in high winds because it would just keep on keep'in on.  That is why I don't think its furling could be called a loss.

Several questions have been asked about the 3-phase wire we use from the generator to the rectifier, mostly questions of "why?".

In a short version: DC output is subject to greater line loss over AC, regardless of basic theory.   

In a long version: If you take a small standard DC output wind generator on a 50 foot tower. You would need to run at least two 8 gauge wires down the tower. If your unit puts out 10 amps at the top, you will not see 10 amps at the bottom because of the loss in the 8 gauge wire.

To avoid as much loss as possible TLG does it is like this, we take the output of our unit and send it down in AC through three different wires which share the amperage so we can utilize smaller wire to deliver more amperage across greater distances.
You may notice other companies such as WindBlue Power following suite and doing the same thing with their units. It just doesn't make sense to do it any other way and I am certain other companies will follow.

The other added perk is the savings in cost of wire.  Smaller 3 conductor wire is much cheaper than large gauge single conductor wire is.
 

Q. How is this unit going to charge my DC batteries if it puts out AC power?
A.  It is going to work and work even better than a DC motor/generator would.  Here's why;  Putting out 3 phase AC power means that you run a regular extension cord with 3 smaller wires down the pole which will save you a lot of money over a normal DC unit, and depending on the length of run you may save enough money in the cost of wire alone to be able to buy a second unit.  I am talking about a piece of like 14-3 to10-3 extension cord available from any discount store.
Once this smaller 3 wire cord is ran down the tower and to your battery bank you will use the supplied 3 phase bridge rectifier that will turn the 3 wires of AC power into a two wires. ( DC Positive and Negative terminals which you can hook right to your battery bank.

Q. Do I need a blocking diode with the TLG500 and if so what size?
A. No, you do not need a blocking diode with the TLG-500 as the 3-phase bridge rectifier takes care of any feedback from the battery bank to the generator.

Q. I have a 24 volt battery bank is this unit going to work for me?
A. Yes.  Start up charge voltage appears to be just right behind the 12 volt start due to the rapid climb in voltage.  From the information coming in looks like just add 1.5 mph to the 12 volt chart and you have the 24 volt chart.  I still plan on redoing the 24 volt chart.  Time permitting.

Q. I am really confused with the output charts you are showing.  In the chart you say the unit does 65 watts of output at 15 mph but yet your picture shows 113.2 watts of output at 15 mph.  Can you explain the contradiction?
A.  Sure I can. :) it is not a contradiction, it is the "ohms law" in effect along with the fact that the date the charts were created was about two weeks before the picture data was added.
There are two things to look at here.  First is the difference in the state of the battery at the time of the chart test and the second is the difference in time that past between the two examples of output you see.
Battery voltage plays a huge factor in the wattage output.  For example 13 volts at 5 amps is 65 watts of output, likewise 15 volts at 5 amps is 75 watts of output.
I think that the bearings were more "broke in" in the picture of the output than it was the very first day of testing when I made the original charts, and that should be closer to what you would see after you had the unit flying for a couple of months.
Another point that may help clear this up is when I first started testing this unit it took 6 mph wind before it would even budge.  Now it rolls in less than 3 mph and continues to turn all the way down to 1 mph.  I really think the majority of the difference is in the bearings loosing up.
UPDATE added 12-21-06.  The bearings of the prototype unit were different than the production unit and spin up much easier than the prototype bearings so output right out of the box should be the higher numbers as customers are stating. 

Q. If I remember correctly you either said or I read that this unit weighs 29 pounds by itself.  Why is it so heavy?
A. You have a very good question and I may actually use its weight as a selling point for it.
Yes just the generator alone weighs 29 pounds, and when it is assembled with the blades and the Yaw assembly it weighs right at 50 pounds complete.
I know that there are units out there that claim to put out 500 to 1000 watts and they only weigh 12 to 20 pounds fully assembled.  But I can tell you with utmost certainty that those units that claim that much power are rated by the industry standard and they will never put out their claimed power into a battery!
It takes magnets to produce a strong flux field to create energy, then it take copper to produce and carry the power out of the unit.  TLG units have aluminum cases so the majority of the weight come from the heavy duty shaft, bearings, copper winding, and the large neodymium magnets in it.  Without weighing as much as it does it would not be able to put out as much power as it does. 

Q. I appreciate the straight forward approach you use on your output charts but don't you think you are hurting yourself by not following along with the industry standard of ratings.  Surely you realize that you make your unit seem inferior to others.
A.  This is a really interesting question or comment to answer.  And I feel a long winded answer coming.  Let me thank you for the complement on my straight forward approach!  You do have a good point and may very well be right to a certain extent.  It would seem more impressive to go with the standard ratings for this unit but it comes back to my straight forward approach again.  Over the years I have helped install and have worked on a variety of different brands of wind generators.  I have talked to hundreds of owners of different systems from all over the world and have heard these units described with such words as "it sucks", "its a piece of $hit", its a joke", etc.  Hearing those comments from most anyone I have talked to I think that I can say with pretty good certainly that if you yourself have ever purchased a wind generator in the past then you may have been disappointed with its output.
Going with "real world" test result means that those that purchase a TLG unit will not be disappointed with its output.  They will get exactly what they expect, therefore I doubt that any of those terms will ever be used to describe a TLG wind generator.  I want anyone who owns a TLG wind generator to be as proud of it flying on their property as I am to be able to offer such a unit.  These units represent my blood sweat and tears.
Someone once said "give them more than they expect" and I think that is a great way to build and maintain a solid respectful business.
We live in the age of the computer where good news travels fast, and bad news travels even faster.  I will be plenty happy staying on the fast track of good news. ;)

Q. Does the new unit you are going to be selling me have a slip ring?
A. No, we are building them to last for many years of trouble free service.  If we were to put a slip-ring on them that would be a weak link because of the amount of amperage the contacts would have to deal with.

Q. The shaft is stainless steel but your hub on your boast buster is standard steel. I assume that it is going to be driven by your boast buster and was wondering how is that going to hold up over time?
A.  I am glad you asked that.  The rotor that will come with the unit will be the 5 foot Boast Buster.  However the hub for the Boast Buster on the new generator will be stainless steel to match the shaft.

Q.  I am surprised you named it TLG 500.  My wife and I were talking and she too expected it to have some wild name like the rest of your stuff.  Is that the best you could do on it?
A.  Actually we had come up with some names for it, but here is what happened.  I tried to be clever with my rotor line with such names as the Tri-Nado. you know like "Tornado"..  But it seems that most people called them the Tri-nad-o rather than Tri-nAdo.  So I figured TLG worked for almost two years to bring a quality wind generator to the market and I didn't want it mispronounced and called something that could not be found if it was searched for.
Just for grins here are a few of the names that were thought of;   The Amp-a-nator 50,  Lord Voltmore500, The Power Purveyor, and my personal favorite, Rayd* Wasp and Hornet Killer. ;) 

Q. Is the TLG 500 also made in the USA like your other products?
A. The majority of the unit is, but the head itself is not.  In the beginning year or so of the generator development process I worked with several US companies to design and build a wind generator head.  There were a few good attempts but all were a brush design.  My problem with brushes is they ware out and fail.  My request was for a high output brushless design.  When I pushed the issue of it being something other than off the shelf parts made from daily production for other motors etc. and ask for a custom design the price went through the roof.  For example the generator head itself was quoted at over 1600.00 bucks in lots of 100 along with a very large setup fee with no guarantee that in the end they could even produce what I wanted.   And at that point it was speculated that the unit at best would only produce 200 to 250 watts.
My thoughts.... who in their right mind would spend 2000 dollars for a 250 watt generator?   So as luck would have it, and again some help from some very good friends I ended up in contact with a firm in China that was eager to do what was ask of them.  However all the rest of the manufactured components for the Yaw Bracket assembly and the rotor are made in USA.

Q.  I ran across a posting about your new generator on another website.  They were saying that the system would need to furl and that they did not think the blades would survive 100 mph winds because of something about them flexing.  Some other comments were that the unit was not built to TLG specs but was an off the shelf unit instead  and that it may not be worth the money in comparison.  Can you clear this up for me?
A. Actually I will clear this up for you and probably several other people that may also have these same questions.  I will break it down into what looks like 4 answers.
1. First of all the system does in fact furl out of the wind due to the offset Yaw point.  This is controlled by the angle of the Vane to the centerline of the rotor itself.  The stronger the wind blows, the faster the rotor turns, the faster the rotor turns, the more mass it presents to the oncoming wind,  the more mass the more pressure it produces against the Vane thus over powering the physical size and mass of the vane itself which causes it to furl.
2.  Something about them flexing?  The blades do not flex!  Let me say that if the 1/8" thick blades of the Boast Buster start to flex run and take cover.  I Personally would be deep in a hole and hoping that there is going to be something left beside bare dirt when I stuck my head back out of the hole.  These type of comments about TLG rotors have been being made for close to 5 years now.   It started with the great fear of metal fatigue from people that think wooden blades are the greatest thing ever.  One point to mention here is the people that make these comments have never flown a TLG rotor.  Now it seems it has moved on to the wind generators TLG produces as well.   I hope those that are sharing these types of comments never board an airplane!  Last time I checked Airplanes were made primarily out of Aluminum and fly millions of miles with minimal maintenance and under go way more stress than a TLG rotor does.  One other point to make is the Aluminum series of TLG blades are going into their 5th year of service with no maintenance reported.    On the part of surviving 100 mph wind.   I tested this unit myself and I ran it down the road with head winds which developed wind speed on the generator system at 100 plus mph and when the testing was completed that day the blades were still in perfect shape.   I wonder how much longer the metal fatigue comments are going to be made?   I mean how long can you beat the same horse, isn't it dead yet?
3.  In reference to the unit not being built to my specs.  Rest certain that the TLG-500 was built to "my specs" Several prototypes were sent and tested.  Changes made thereafter, and then another prototype sent and tested until the unit met my expectations.  So in my terms I think that would be classified as built to my specs and not an off the self unit.
4.  Not worth the money in comparison to what?  There really isn't any way to compare this unit to another because they are not an any way similar to anything on the market now.  The only way to compare is by output, and TLG rates its unit by the actual power you see at your battery bank, while others use the theoretical Instantaneous output rating.  Furthermore I don't know of a unit out there that has the "real" output of this unit and certainly none built with the features of the TLG-500.  I know there's lots of claims from companies that say they have a low rpm generator, but does their low rpm generators reach full output at only 463 rpm like the TLG-500, or are their units just starting to reach the speed needed to even begin output at that rpm?  Sorry to answer a question with a question but I am not aware of an almost ready to fly unit anywhere that even performs in the same category as the TLG-500. 

Q.  Your information states that the unit reaches full output at 463 rpm but your chart shows that it takes close to 40 mph to reach full output.  I guess my question is why does it not reach full output sooner?
A.  That is a very good question,  We designed the unit to start putting out real charge voltage at a low wind speed.  At some point I had to find a happy medium for the overall output.  I could have used larger blades which would have raised the starting charge point a few mph which would make it put out larger amounts of amperage sooner, but when the wind was stronger it would over drive it and cause excessive heat.
One thing to remember is there is only so much power that can be extracted from a given wind, and I feel we are doing a pretty good job gathering it in the lower winds with the TLG-500.
If you compare the TLG-500's output using the ( conservative I. L. S. ratings chart ) so you can compare apples to apples with some of the other units on the market you would then see that we are hitting full output in about half the wind speed it takes for some of the others.

Q. Do I need a blocking diode on the TLG-500?
A. No, the 3-phase bridge rectifier isolates the output of the TLG-500 so there is no feedback.

Q. If i am reading your information correctly the TLG500 is putting out better than your chart says.  Is that right??
A. Yes, that is correct.  The unit was purposely under rated by TLG, but we didn't mean to under rate it as much as we did.  It seems pretty clear from the comments coming in that on a 12 volt system the TLG-500 delivers your first amp right at 6 mph and it climbs fast with any wind above that.  Looks like in the average daily winds of 12 to 15 mph that a lot of us have that you will get between 5 to 8 amps consistently out of each unit.
FYI.  At the 12 to 15 mph mark there are several other units out there that are not even producing 1 amp into a battery yet, even though they are saying hundreds of watts at that wind speed.  That's the Instantaneous thing for ya.
 

Return to the TLG-500 page

TLG Home Page

Click here for questions or to arrange to purchase your wind generator.